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Author Topic:   Vulgaris and nail health
gryphon
Member

Posts: 298
From:Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2006

posted June 10, 2006 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gryphon   Click Here to Email gryphon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have IV. For as long as I can remember I've had problems with toenail health. My pinkie toenail has always been bumpy, striated, and ridged. The two toes immediately beside my pinkie toe have also at times developed nail ridges. Those two toenails have improved over the last decade (due perhaps to better nutrition) while the pinkie toe has remained the same.

I asked a doctor about it for the first time yesterday. It never bothered me enough to ask a doctor before. She prescribed Lamisil. I however suspect it may be IV related b/c other members of my family with ich also have the similar toenail problems to varying degrees.

Do any of you with IV have similar problems with nail health?

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highflyer
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Posts: 31
From:redding, ca, shasta county
Registered: Jul 2006

posted July 31, 2006 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for highflyer   Click Here to Email highflyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes i notice my son's toe nails grow long and fuuny but i never asked a doctors his finger nails grow very fast long and he likes them somewhat long to scarch.

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daisy & harely

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highflyer
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Posts: 31
From:redding, ca, shasta county
Registered: Jul 2006

posted July 31, 2006 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for highflyer   Click Here to Email highflyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes my son does his nails catch my attention but never asked a doctors about. they grow really fast thin brittle looking.his toes are wors then his fingers.

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daisy & harely

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gryphon
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Posts: 298
From:Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2006

posted July 31, 2006 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gryphon   Click Here to Email gryphon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello highflyer,

My finger nails are very healthy as are four of the toenails on each foot. It's just the pinkie toes that are as I described earlier.

My nails on those toes, like your son's, grow funny and are brittle. However, they are thick and bumpy rather than thin as you described.

I've often wondered whether it is IV related as hair, nails and skin are all keratin. What I'm not certain about is whether there is a keratinization defect with IV (I should look into it maybe). Ichthyosis and 'ectodermal' problems (ie. skin, hair, nails, teeth) are not always completely unrelated.

My GP doc, at a quick glance, said it was fungal and gave me a script which I still haven't bothered to get filled (still in my wallet). I don't see dermatologists regularly anymore. If you still see one for your son maybe you can ask the derm whether it is related to IV. It's would be worth knowing whether there is a connection.

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Peachfuzz
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Posts: 126
From:Buckinghamshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2005

posted August 02, 2006 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peachfuzz   Click Here to Email Peachfuzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My baby toenails are also very rough and almost non-existant - they sometimes crack and split into two - when they're rough I sometimes file the top of them to make them look smoother like the others so I can paint them with the rest of the nails (what little of them there is on the baby ones that is - I just about manage a wee blob of nail varnish on them to make them match!)

I believe I have IV but am waiting for doctor to confirm as we were never was told which type I had when diagnosed as a child as I don't believe they knew there were so many different types then

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charmed7
Member

Posts: 126
From:Hartford, CT
Registered: Mar 2004

posted August 02, 2006 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmed7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My son's feet are all messed up (coming from someone who think feet are ugly in general tho). His big toe is rigid and dips in the middle. The smallest ones grows around the tip of his toe if I don't clip them regularly. And if he's particularly dry, I can see scales on his finger nails. I try to clip them often because they are so weak and brittle, but he likes them long for scratching too. So I try to only torture him once a month. (evil laugh)

I've been tempted to bring him to get manicures and pedicures (something I don't even do for myself) My husband said he would never talk to me again if I did. (He's a little stubborn).

I think it's so hard to maintain every other aspect of his condition the nails just get left out. But if you're concerned and would like to try and treat it, I would look into the different vitamins that help with Nail growth/condition to take both in pill form and possible as an application to the nail itself. If you find anything that works let us know

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highflyer
Member

Posts: 31
From:redding, ca, shasta county
Registered: Jul 2006

posted August 02, 2006 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for highflyer   Click Here to Email highflyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes hair and nail is together with IV their differnet kinds related i did some recherh on it acually yesterday. I saved it one my favorites i ' get it and copy it.

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daisy & harely

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highflyer
Member

Posts: 31
From:redding, ca, shasta county
Registered: Jul 2006

posted August 02, 2006 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for highflyer   Click Here to Email highflyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://dermnet.com/moduleIndex.cfm?moduleID=13
this site give pictures and name of nail diffency ect..

and
http://www.scalyskin.org/column.cfm?ColumnID=14 This site give each types of IV and what might be going on. tell about hair, nail, musles, ect.

Hope this helps someone
it did me. now whhen i tale my back to the doctors i can tell them the problem with his legs might be due to the condtion and i want to find out. i kind of had a idea it did but they dont what to do anything about it. they say his legs are week for his age but they not concerned. he get these pains they say just grow pains, but sometime he get them so bad he cant walk. i think it related. they refuse to do any testing. i changing docotors. now i have proff it may be due to the condtion or something else. i whant to find out.

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daisy & harely

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gryphon
Member

Posts: 298
From:Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2006

posted August 02, 2006 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gryphon   Click Here to Email gryphon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Highflyer,

Although there may be a hair/skin/nail/teeth connection with some types of ich, I haven't found any studies or articles connecting them to IV. I don't think the FIRST website/scalyskin.org refers to a nail problem for IV either (please correct me if I'm wrong). Thanks for the link to the nail photos. None of the pictures looked *exactly* like mine though. The closest would be of the thick toenails in the "Distal Subungual" group but that again is a nail fungus if I'm not mistaken. I'll explain later why I'm pretty sure it's not fungal. Maybe I should just take the darn Lamisil and end this speculation.

In my family there are three people with IV. We all have this problem with our pinkie toenails and, in some cases, other toenails. Although I brought up the issue of 'ectodermal' problems and ich in general, it doesn't all apply to our IV. Our hair is all in great condition though mine is what would be classified as "dry". No alopecia whatsoever for any of us. Our teeth are all strong and very resistant to cavities. So really, though we all have varying degrees of moderate IV, the nail thing is the only problem. Hence the reason for me starting this thread to see whether there is a IV connection to nail health.


Charmed,

Hey, no son of mine would set foot in a nail salon either. So I'm with your hubby on that one (maybe it's a guy thing). If you do manage to eventually get your own way (often women do), then at least take your poor son to a salon in a neighbouring county cuz if getting caught having a pedicure doesn't get him beat up in school I don't know what will.

Diet and supplementation did make a difference in nail health. In my first post I described how initially several of my nails had problems (with lateral ridging and being either soft or brittle). That was when I was on my "highschool cum college" diet (basically beer, nachos, pizza and Taco Bell). For the past 10 years I've eaten healthfully and taken nutritional supplements and seen great improvements in both my nail health and skin health. It's just my pinkie toe that remains that way. So a better diet and supplements should improve the condition of your son's nails. BTW my big toe is fine and I have no dips in my toenails like your son. I'll describe my nails later.

I have IV and I can understand what you mean by the toenails not being a big deal when your dealing with skin problems. I ignored mine for decades.


Peachfuzz,


Your description of your toe is very reminiscent of my own. My baby toenail also has difficulty growing in length. Often it tends to grow more upward (thickness) than it does outward (length). the pinkie nail also cracks from time to time. Additionally I have no sensitivity to my pinkie-toe nailbed b/c that nail has cracked so often. In fact, I can cut my pinkie-toe nail down to the cuticle if I want with no pain, sensitivity or bleeding. If my nail grows too misshapen I will cut it down to the cuticle to manage its growth (but I like your filing method though...I never thought to do that).

Here are some reasons why I think it's IV related and not fungal, despite my GP's cursory diagnosis.

1. My nail has been like this for as long as I can remember. (at least since I was 6)

2. Everyone with IV in my family has similar baby toenails.

3. There has never been an instance of normal nail fungus transmission (ie. sharing nailclippers, through showers) to anyone else in my life.

4. Over the years, it hasn't spread to other toes.

To let you all know, for the last week or so I've been applying my foot care urea cream (25% urea) to my affected toenail as well. This cream normally is used to keep my heels from cracking. It seems to be helping my nail as well in that it is taking a normal colour (less yellow and grey and more pink) and becoming less brittle. I'm going to give the treatment a few more weeks to see if it stops the nail from becoming thick and bumpy. I'll post an update at that time.

Thanks all

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sofy
Member

Posts: 12
From:New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2003

posted August 26, 2006 04:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sofy   Click Here to Email sofy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm in posting overload today. i have exactly the same thing. Really gross ridged toenails on my baby toes, recently spread a little to the ones beside. Its strange that so many people have the same thing. I was also prescribed a fungal cream, but it didn't help.

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gryphon
Member

Posts: 298
From:Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2006

posted August 27, 2006 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gryphon   Click Here to Email gryphon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm. Now that sofy has mentioned the same type of baby toe nail I'm really beginning to think that it is related to IV.

A while back, after a post by another member of this BB (joey) about Aqua Glycolic, I was on the Aqua Glycolic site and noticed that it specifically mentioned applying the high-concentration lotion (14% glycolic acid) to "dry or brittle nails" after "soaking in warm water for a few minutes". That recommendation is at the bottom of this linked A-G page ( http://www.aquaglycolic.com/dry-skin.htm ).

Not wanting to order A-G just for my nails, I decided to try my usual Dermal Therapy "Heel Care" cream (25% urea). In the past I have tried various 'hand and nail' lotions and even my 10% urea + 5% lactic acid to no avail. But after just a few days of using the 25% urea I noticed a noticeable improvement as I mentioned at the end of my last post.

It has been a number of weeks since I started applying the high-concentration cream. My application to the affected nails consists of putting a good dab of the cream on the nails after my shower/bath. I let the dab sit there while I lotion the rest of my skin as per my usual routine and, at the end, I come back to the nails and rub the dab into my nail (No rhyme or reason to this method, just my quirkiness I guess). After a few days of applying the cream, I filed the 'top' of the nail (thanks for the tip, Peachfuzz!) just to speed up the normalization of the nail and to remove the thickened and bumpy top surface of the nail. I summarily filed the nails only for two days and haven't had to file again after that. The improvement has been remarkable over the last few weeks. For the first time in 35 years my pinkie toe nails pretty well look and feel normal and have the length and shape it should. They are still a bit 'rough' to the touch but there is no visible striation, bumpiness, or discolouration and upon casual examination they look perfectly normal. I'm really pleased with the results. I'm hoping that as the nail continues to grow out, it will acquire the sheen and smoothness of my other nails. The application of the 25% urea cream to my toenails is now part of my daily lotion regimen but I plan on alternating the use of a glycerin lotion with the urea cream to see if it is even better for the nails. I'm still in the trial stage in that respect.

With this experience I think that what I have always had is a keratinization problem with my toenails or just plain dry toenails stemming from my IV. A high AHA/urea cream seems to allow the nail to stay soft and hydrated and in turn to grow normally. This is *not* a medical diagnosis. Just my hunch on what I'm observing.

So to anyone who responded to this thread or who reads this with similar problems, I would suggest trying a high-concentration AHA or Urea lotion. Here are a few familiar to me listed according the country from which they are distributed. There are other brands as well but make sure it is of equal potency b/c from my experience the lower-concentration AHA or urea 'body lotions' are of no benefit to affected nails.

USA: Aqua-Glycolic (14% glycolic acid) - linked above

Canada: Dermal Therapy Heel Care (25% urea) - http://www.dermaltherapy.com/skin_care/heel-care.htm

Australia: Dermadrate Cracked Heel Therapy (20% urea, 5% lactic acid) - http://www.dermatech.com.au/errormsg/Dermatech/products/dry1.html

I hope you all experience improvements similar to my own.

[This message has been edited by gryphon (edited August 27, 2006).]

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